Here’s How Zombies Became Less Fun

Artificial inflation in zombies is a pandemic. Over the
years the task to create more innovative, more challenging, more exciting maps has resulted
in an exhausting and unachievable race to the top to make each zombie map better than
the last. To try to push Call of Duty Zombies to its
limits all three developers have been forced to use every trick in the book resulting in
many interesting and fun experiences over the years with some equally frustrating and
tedious ones. *cut to a stream highlight of something awful* But over the course of the more than 40 zombie
experiences, After playing all those iterations, across ten years and three developers, Call
of Duty zombies begins to feel a little stale. Stale to a point where players can see and
feel how the developers are artificially inflating difficulty inside the game. Simply put, artificial inflation increases
a task in-game under the guise of making said task “MORE CHALLENGING” or in real terms
making tasks arbitrarily longer! The developers’ goal in implementing these
tricks is to make maps feel like a fuller experience. But is it actually more challenging, does
it actually give players more enjoyable things to do, and does artificial inflation make
for better or worse gameplay experiences? Today I am going to dive into these questions
along with providing suggestions for improvement in today’s episode of THE MAINFRAME!
*intro plays* Black Ops 4 suffered from artificial inflation
worse than any zombies experience has to date. With that said no single zombies experience
is without artificial inflation, what has changed is how fun it is to do. The mantra once touted by former studio head
Mark Liamnia “Follow the Fun” has seemed to vanish in recent maps in Call of Duty Zombies. For every example I bring up in today’s
episode I want you to ask yourself “is this fun or is this tedious?”. BUT FUN IS SUBJECTIVE! Correct shouting face! That means artificial inflation exists on
a spectrum that will cause different players to lose “the fun” at different points
on the spectrum. Some players do not mind waiting a Round to
perform the next step in an easter egg, while another player will be infuriated that they
have to end the round to continue the easter egg causing zombies to get tougher, forcing
them to juggle with the onslaught of the hoard while dealing with new hoops to jump through. I personally draw my line in the sand at this
basic idea. “Would I be able to complete this faster
if this artificial barrier wasn’t purposely slowing me down”. Aka is this tedious or fun? “YOU JUST WANT THE GAME EASIER!” No, I don’t, the fun can mean being challenged! Boss fights are great examples of fun challenging
steps. It is you vs the boss mechanics, GO! Not wanting artificial inflation doesn’t
mean I want god mode enabled while I one-hit zombies until round infinity like a true gamer!!!!! Again no, what I mean is this example. Take the Final Riche. Great map, I enjoyed it in World War 2 zombies. Do you remember the step where you have to
press square to get these wind chimes to the correct setting? Well, I certainly do as it haunts my dreams. This task comes after you figure out the whole
puzzle for the step. Before inputting the code you need to kill
a Brenner, run around the map to find paintings, reveal secret codes on the paintings with
the Brenner’s head, remember the code, then input it into the device. The puzzle is over, the fun of the challenge
is over, all that is left is “ugh, just, hmmm, I mean really, hey, son of, OHHHHHHH!”. The task of inputting the code is artificially
inflated when zombies are attacking while you are trying to input a few numbers. *News flash* zombies attacking you is the
whole game! True, but during every easter egg step ever
when you input something what do you want? A second to focus. In multiplayer you have the luxury of screaming
at your teammate to hold the zombies. In solo, you are forced to burn your precious
consumables as the hungry microtransaction overlord rejoice at your frustration! Or you do what the majority of us do: Slowly
input each button press in over the course of the next few minutes because the last zombie
is super sprinting up your butt. The one zombie is going to down you less frequently
than a kicker misses the extra point attempt in the NFL. Next to never. To me, this process isn’t fun. What is the difference in letting the players
input the reward after their hard work without a zombie hitting you like a rabid raccoon? Why punish the player for figuring things
out? What could possibly be an alternative to this
design?! Well, a few things actually. In a previous video, I made a whole discussion
about the importance of crawlers. What they alleviate are these situations artificial
inflation of “difficulty”. Getting a crawler that doesn’t bleed out
gives players a chance to input the damn code in a few seconds. Get them back to the fun! Even Moon had a fairer input system for solo
players AND it had crawlers but you know what else crawler allows? The ability for players to thoroughly immerse
themselves in these easter eggs whether they are the biggest puzzles in the map or the
most interesting side quests. If I was a developer, I would want people
to play and enjoy the features I spent months of my life programming away, months artists
spent designing, months the whole team spent to make some ungrateful YouTube like! I would want people to enjoy the game in a
way that sticks with them. One of the unintentional consequences of adding
artificial inflation to the game is the resulting loss of immersion. Exo Zombies, IW Zombies, Black Ops 3 Zombies,
Black ops 4 zombies all suffer from this in varying degrees of this problem. Exo zombies and BO4 being some of the worst
cases! Some of my most vivid memories playing Call
of Duty Zombies ever were the ones where I sitting listening to the quiet ticks of Der
Riese, The whispers of Shi No Numa, the ringing of Shangri La while there was a long pause
in the action. “play ambiance”
Do any of you share this feeling? I am not saying these are my favorite memory,
no! What I am saying is this is what stuck with
me after playing for years. I can hear less than 5 seconds of ambiance
and know what map is being played and all the memories I associate with that map in
a moment because I had the ability to listen to the map through crawlers or create a pause
in the action in older maps. I could take in the surroundings, have a moment
to think about the puzzles without worrying about some consumable running out. None of that can happen when you have super sprinters smashing
you upside your head after you figured out the right order to put the levers in for Voyage
of Despair. I understand there is an argument saying “doing
these tasks with the zombies IS THE CHALLENGE DO DO BIRD!!!!”. But my critique of that argument is two-fold. First, are the challenges or easter eggs so
shallow or uninteresting that they can’t stand against the use of a crawler? That they aren’t challenging or engaging
without being under fire constantly? Hit your mark is one of the most fun steps
in Black Ops 4. It isn’t hard, but it is fun because it
lets you focus and engage with what is happening. Second does having zombies attacking you make
the quest or task more fun? Sometimes the answer to the question will
be yes others a strong no. To me, the instances where you input a code
like the WW2 step, like the Voyage of Despair levers, and like the Shalin Shuffle morris
code do not affect the player’s ability to complete the outcome it only elongates the
game because the task is tedious, not fun. Artificial inflation isn’t just button inputs. Think of the evolution of buildables. Slowly the series went from remembering a
few parts in a few locations to remember hundreds of locations, parts, and steps to function
on all the maps. Do you think I’m exaggerating saying hundreds? Let’s look at a surface level of a few Black
Ops 4 key locations to remember… In Dead of the night to get silver bullets
and the shield, you must remember 20 locations between all the parts and the benches. In Blood of the Dead, you have 40 locations
to memorize to find the Seagal for the easter egg step. Ancient Evil has 20 locations for the dormant
hands, IX has 12 skull locations to start the easter egg and 9 different stones that
hide around the map for another step, there are 20 locations for the Tag der Toten Apothicon
blood, there are 7 symbol locations and three Talley scratches in three possible locations
to go along with each symbol in Dead of the Night’s easter egg, and so on with shields,
equipment, easter eggs steps etc. I can sit here naming all these items to pick
up in 3 to 40 locations per map! How does having 20 different locations for
an item make the game more fun? It doesn’t, it makes the game longer. You have to check all these spots to get the
same end result you could have had when you checked the very first spot. Players aren’t playing anymore due to artificial
inflation. They are stuck crafting to set up instead
of jumping into things like previous maps. Players have to sit through agonizingly long
guides on YouTube (besides for glitch) to learn how to do anything. Even some of glitches easter egg guides require
you to watch 15 minutes’ worth of material with 10 minutes of other explanations in other
videos within the description! It is completely out of hand for something
that is adding nothing positive to the experience. One of the most disappointing evolutions of
buildables is the shield. What was a staple for zombie maps has become
the newest “crutch” in zombies. Black ops 4 in nearly unplayable to average
players without a shield. With super sprinters being commonplace in
early rounds, not having a shield is an easy death sentence. Every game, players are forced to build a
shield so they don’t get instantly killed with one wrong turn. It utterly wastes players’ time to rebuild
the shield every single game. Nothing changes, it is the same result, it
breaks you waste time fixing it otherwise you will die within minutes. There has to be an adjustment made to shield
implementation. Get rid of it entirely or have it add more
to the gameplay outside of easter egg steps. Many of these examples are barriers to fun. You can’t just play zombies anymore because
you must know all the locations of parts to have a fighting chance. The final example I have of artificial inflation
inside zombies is the requirement to end rounds to start the next steps of easter eggs or
in-game rewards. It kills the flow of the fun when you have
to wait for three rounds in IX for poop to LITERALLY FERTILIZE. I shit you not. Pun intended. This coincides with the decision to force
players to trade the hell’s retriever away for monkey bombs only to require the hell’s
retriever again for a future step. The same example applies on Moon needing both
QED and Gersh for steps forcing players to sit rolling the box until RNG grants them
the greatest gift they have ever received “the ability to move on!”. The quick fix for RNG required items in quests,
allow side quests to get them or make them buyable. Blood got that right with the Moneky bomb…only
to force you to get it again from the box if you wanted it for the boss fight. So is all artificial inflation bad? Are boring-ass escort steps bad because they
are slow or have zombies being thrown at you? Not necessarily! Let’s look at two examples. The first being DoTN where you have to slowly
walk with a stone that will stop in place if you get too far ahead. It forces players to slow things down, forcing
players to kill zombies, to push rounds up to artificially make the game harder as the
rounds tick by through no fault of your own. Check out most first-time easter egg completions. Players end up in the 30s and 40s trying to
jump through Easter egg hoops. That doesn’t make a fun experience, what
does then? the escort mission in Blood of the Dead! How is that any different? The step isn’t about punishing players for
doing it. You experience a great display, while players
are empowered for kicking zombies ass. There is a clear experience happening above
the normal chaos of killing zombies. You feel empowered in this escort mission
instead of annoyed. “So what you are saying is you want things
easy?” No, I am not! Look at Exo Zombie Decent. An actual challenging step is the platforming
step. It is frustrating but challenging. Maybe one of the platforming jumps goes too
far but it is an original idea testing player for their skills. No zombies are slapping you as you try to
make these pain in the ass jumps. That’s good skill design. In Voyage of Despair, you learn what Ice to
destroy as you become surrounded by zombies after the planet step. There is a spectacle transpiring around you,
while crafty players are rewarded when using the right weapons at the right instances as
they race to the back of the ship. All hell is breaking loose but the gameplay
is complementing the easter egg step forward. You will never find a player rewarded for
running a zombie in a circle correctly in their efforts to input a code. A great example of a step having and lacking
artificial inflation is the planet step in VoD. You can turn to interact with the model as
many times as possible before making your choice to shoot the planet in the sky. The key is figuring out the planet symbol
locations, finding the model, memorizing the order, and shooting them down in time to collect
the-wisp. But the solo player gets screwed because they
can’t keep rewatching the solar system model without that annoying zombie forcing them
to look away. Again forcing the game to go longer, only
because of the tedious need to train a zombie. Zombies flood players while they try to pick
up the wisp before it disappears. Does there really need to be 24 zombies rushing
the location to make it harder on players? I don’t think so, it is for the sake of
forcing players to do the step over and over until the zombies don’t block the way to
the whisp. It gets so ridiculous in the IX gauntlet,
which is meant to be completed as fast as possible!!! The mode has a timer on screen! During the gauntlet, there is a round where
you survive for 9 minutes! 9 MINUTES! You are forced to play the game like normal
for 9 minutes. If that’s what Treyarch thinks is a challenge
I think that tells you a lot about the fun of the game. Some would call these processes filler. Voyage’s gauntlet forces players to use
the essek rifle on round 27, this process is the definition of tedious. These tasks only prove you have time and patience,
which is the nuance. Is it challenging and fun if something is
a test of patience rather than skill or cleverness? I firmly believe patience and time in zombies
buy in large are time-wasting propositions. What is the difference between completing
round 50 Classified and 150? It is your time, focus, commitment, and internet
connection that make the difference. At what point do you start having fun 20 hours
into using an exploit or training circles on classified? Artificial Inflation does not follow the fun. There you have my thesis on artificial inflation
in zombies. For
the most part, it sucks. It can work well when it focuses on “the
fun”. When artificial inflation is put on a display,
reward players for their actions, and challenges their skills it can work. When it grinds the flow to a halt it makes
jam-packed maps like all of Black Ops 4 feel horribly tedious. Thanks for watching this week’s episode of
the mainframe! Every Friday at 4:30 pm est we release a new
episode! Subscribe so you don’t miss one. Leave a rating and comment for the YouTube
algorithm. Have you noticed artificial inflation in zombies? Does it bother you? Do you not care? There are more examples but this video would
go on forever. Thank you to my Patreon supporters who make
these videos possible! Consider becoming one today! In addition, we will have a new poster design
for sale soon! With the release of Resident Evil 3, I have
designed a resident evil remake tribute poster with the beautiful art of Stefen! Stay tuned for the official release! Thanks for watching and I will see you in
the next video! Be safe until then!

84 Replies to “Here’s How Zombies Became Less Fun”

  1. BO5 is going to be a nervous welcome, when it comes to zombies (if it even has zombies). I will say, I am excited for the future, but I'm not getting my hopes to high. Although my hopes can only be rendered on last gen, so their highest point is pretty low…

  2. I'm gonna be honest Nazi Zombies from
    WW2 was actually a breath of fresh air to me. It was extremely unique and fun. But also challenging as hell.

  3. You said 40 zombies experiences and I went woah I remember when I could count the amount of zombies maps on one or 2 hands

  4. I’m about as cautious of the next treyarch zombies game as I am for the next BioShock. Albeit for completely different reasons, I’m nervous for these haha. Great video as always, Reed!

  5. Here’s another big reason the mode got not fun… we got older, when we get older we expect more things we never knew existed, want more out of things etc and when we were young playing this more we’re just playing to play then boom map drops how we’re we not gonna be crazy excited

  6. The perfect example of artificial inflation, in terms of difficulty, is the morse code step if you're doing Blood of the Dead's easter egg solo. Having to focus on beats instead of numbers, while tapping on a button (instead of entering a code that will stay there), while training a zombie in that tiny room, is infuriating. BO3 has these elements too, a la GK and Rev, but they're amplified in BO4's engine. There's a lot of things I can defend in BO4, but this system isn't one of them.

    Edit: Just saw the Dead of the Night list and I just…it's got a lot in it but it's good! I swear! ༼ つ ಥ_ಥ ༽つ

  7. I share that feeling 100%. I loved the quiet moments in zombies, it was definitely one of my favorite parts and I agree wholeheartedly that BO3 and BO4 suffered due to the constantttt running. It makes it impossible to look for parts and other tedious ee steps

  8. The only reason why zombies stopped being fun to me is how I was trained to only play for grinding. I either grinded for ingame currency or to get some special prize. Back in black ops 2, I didn't need nor care to grind. I played to have fun and get high rounds, but now I feel obligated to play for grinding.

    Plus it feels the same every year.

  9. Aye, artificial inflation isn't what broke it for me, but I can certainly agree to an extent. I mostly just burnt myself out by playing nonstop.

  10. Code input can be done well though, i think the Simon says in DE and how you get the safe code was extremely creative and not too difficult on solo. Personally I think that’s an Easter egg that in general can be considered perfect

  11. I believe part of the reason it has gotten less fun to play is also the removal of risks in zombies. In bo4 there's no point in even reviving people if there just gonna spawn back in the next round. And the new perk system makes it so there is little penalty for going down. Perks shouldn't be treated like extra bonuses and should have a much bigger impact, on bo1-3 and iw when I go down its a fun challenging rush to try to find my way out of the situation and recover. On bo4 I get back up in basically the same state as when I downed. For me the most fun I have in zombies is when bad situations take place and its a challenge to get through them. Although I love bo4 i feel like the changes they made (especially the points system) hinder these awesome scenarios happening which makes it much harder for me to enjoy the game. I just hope bo5 works on making the game-mode more accessible for newer players as opposed to easier for them. New players should understand the mechanics and want to improve to get further, having 200 hp and no progression throughout the match makes the game-mode feel stale and repetitive very quickly.

  12. Any map easter egg that requires me to stop and listen closely to Morse Code while having Zombies constantly chasing me and screaming in my ear instantly makes me not want to try the easter egg again.

  13. I've always thought Easier Eggs were way better with a team. I feel like I get more satisfaction out of me and three others putting our heads together and solving it than trying to do it alone and have to worry about the zombie on my ass all the time.

  14. Good video, but you neglect to mention that a lot of these problems started in BO3 and BO4 ramped these up to an absurd degree. It's entirely possible that due to BO3's warm reception that Treyarch thought BO4 is the natural evolution and what fans would've wanted.

  15. Before watching, Treyarch legit just needs to look at BO1-BO3 and create maps that feel more refined and fluid, rather than oversaturate or innovate in places that diminish the previous great features. Also that background is sweet.

  16. I agree with everything except your statment on the sheild. Your statement revolved around it becoming a necessity to survive. A complaint. I also have this complaint, but I do not blame the shield. I blame the zombie spawn locations and zombie A.I. As you know it is imperative that you put the right amount of space between you and each zombie. Which has become unreasonably difficult with the aggressiveness of the new A.I., reason rate, and locations being right up your ass wherever you move.

  17. It started to become less fun when Jason blundell made maps where you had to look up a YouTube video just to do anything to progress.

  18. I've always thought this, but you simply put it perfectly, Reed! There's a difference between something being challenging and something being annoying. More likely to get down =/= more fun, unless it's done fairly and in an engaging challenging way. Having to run up to a puzzle element, only to get 2 seconds before getting swiped from behind, to then run away with the zombie and back again to the puzzle element for another 2 seconds – is simply not fun. At all. They are two gameplay styles that simply doesn't match, and I don't understand how the developers don't see that a survival style where you're always on the move doesn't work with a puzzle gameplay style where you have to stand still.

  19. This is why I stopped playing a lot. I bought the dlcs and enjoyed them for a couple of short games, but then I ether had to study to become good so I could keep having fun or focus on my IRL study.
    I think a lot would have been better if most steps of getting ready to play were told to you in game by a radio or the characters themselves, rather then going out of the game and on YouTube.
    Like in Nazi zombies ww2, but not for the Easter egg, but for everything else.

  20. Gobblegums/Fate or Fortune Cards/Consumables/Elixirs should be removed imo bc they are a broken mechanic that makes players too strong and completely removes the grind or difficultly of the match.

  21. I like the term "Artificial Inflation". I guess I've always dubbed this term "Artificial Difficulty" but you nailed all the points I could think of. Excellent video Reed 👌🐻

  22. I agree with zombies becoming too tedious (looking at you BOTD Morse code and a million spawns for the ghost seagull, and the 30some part spawn locations in DOTN). Also can’t we just solve the puzzle and then go to the “machine” or whatever and hit square or X. The character knows the solution so they should input it. Similar to building the shield, you find the parts then hit square/X you don’t have to sit there and try to put the shield together, the character knows how to do it. I think the best newer EE’s are DE, GK, Ancient Evil, Shadows, and Alpha Omega. Biggest reason is because I’m a solo player so I don’t have the luxury of “Hey hold a zombie for me.” Like I said in yesterday’s stream, I’m loving these Mainframe videos, I think you are right on the money with them. Hopefully some of the devs are watching.

  23. Absolutely loving the series keep it up, it’s a refreshing critical take on zombies and its nice to see how improvements could be made to benefit the overall enjoyment of zombies going forward.

  24. Hello mr Reed. Just wanna say thanks to u for making good videos.u hafe helped me a lot the past yers through some hard times becose of Health problems. Just want to thank u and wish u and jhon the best inn the future. God bless

  25. I just finished the IX gauntlet solo with classic elixers and no talisman and let me just say. That shit was hard

  26. I don't listen to radios anymore because I'm constantly getting bum rushed by a single super sprinting zombie.

    It's not hard.
    It is annoying.

  27. What comes to mind when I think of artificial inflation is that damn seagull in Blood of The Dead.
    I'm serious. If you only had to interact with it once then you'd know it exists for when it saves you from Brutus later in the easter egg and it wouldn't feel like inflation.

  28. The double swipe system in Waw-bo3 was manageable but got way too hard and tedious shortly after the release of black ops 3 when they made the zombies super flash like speed that was one of things that really peeved me off because it means running normally is near impossible without stamina up. Which meant that it was way harder to have that tiny bit of a lead when training zombies while the others worked on their timing for a Easter egg step. Another gripe I had which you have in the vid was crawlers the fact zombies had a bleed out timer shorter than a fart is ridiculous. Black ops 1 did it best. Black ops 4 after the blue screens quadrupledfied it so much on these issues you can litterly get quadruple hit by one zombie, Easter eggs require morse code and code breaker type requirements to even learn a code. Like you said the item placement was ridiculous I mean you literally have to spend nearly an hour to build a shield a fucking shield Jesus Christ. Don’t even get me started on the ridiculousness of dead of the night I’m braindead after that map with the hidden shit. WW2/IW zombies at least gave you a chance. I swear I still have not gotten to use the spork and redeemer in blood because what you had to do to get them. To give you a chuckle I found Origins in black ops 2 was probably the hardest map in my personal opinion till black ops 4 came around

  29. Glitch is PHENOMENAL, and is fantastic at making things the most simple & quick way to accomplish something. Even then some of his videos pass the 10 minute mark because of artificial inflation. If Glitch didn’t exist BO4 would be unplayable

  30. To be fair MANY of the inflation things are TECHNICALLY optional like the shield. And yes some maps are insane to do without the build ables. And the idea of having need for guides is also due to people usually wanting it explained for them instead of discovering it for themselves imo and all the challenges of ees basically being KILL THEM all about 20 times is due to our collective adhd of not many being good at keeping their attention to like things like audio logs on Mob. But I agree generally with you here reed

  31. I disagree with the equipment steps and having to roll the box. The box is a key component of zombies so it is fitting that you need to really use it for a step. Equipment is also a main component which can be used as tools. Since you can only hold one tool at a time then you have to roll the box

  32. I’m enjoying BO4 only the map I’m really enjoy playing is IX and Classified and Ancient Evil and Tag der toten and DOTN

  33. I just want to say keep making these videos. I know Zombies is pretty dry right now, but I've been watching you and all of the other youtubers who still upload even though I hardly play Zombies currently. I feel like BO4 as disappointing as it was, it was a necessary step for the community and the mode. You and a lot of the other members of the community have matured a lot over the past couple years and honestly it has made for much more enjoyable content. I have hope for BO5 (if it even has zombies) and I think that with everything the community has learned as well as the new director, this game could spark new life into the mode and bring the hype back. So keep doing what you do. I'd love to see the hype come back for Zombies and I'll be watching as long as you keep posting.

    Edit: And I know this comment sounds very sappy, but this isn’t the type of comment I write very often. It’s just that this community and game is the one that I have loved being a part of more than any other and I want the mode to succeed. BO5 marketing can’t come soon enough.

  34. Bring back game play like DE in BO3 and the Easter Egg as well get rewarded at the end, its not over kill steps and its fun…Revelations so much hype and failed in my opinion, map is fun but EE ends game and thats bummer.

  35. This is exactly why I couldn't even enjoy myself doing the EEs for BO4. It's a shame I tried staying optimistic through the whole life cycle but it just never turned around for me throughout the dlc season.

  36. Idk about the shield thing it's hard to l make it less us full with out making it usless but one thing that I really would like to see more of was soul box that do thing like in IWZ in ZNS the soul box's where to build the wonder weapon which was it's own thing you did need it for the Boss Fight but there also fun to us and easy to get and all in all the ZNS ee is really simple but still hard. What I think the problem is the idea that challenging means Everthing just has more. More health more zombie more points needed and more spawn points a game that dose this right with just zombies excluding ee is killingfloor where the zombies dont just get harder they get smarter different types of zombie different paths they take and even zombies that can only be killed in specific ways the lack of kill Quest where you just get to murder zombies in some cool why is really missed in bo4 but I defo agree with senpai in that you just can't hold a zombie and there not a lot of Skill based steps it just press a button and skip a round and the lack of just being able to do puzzles and it's done

  37. Great video Reed, As a mostly solo player i absolutely hated most of BO4 zombies because everything felt super tedious just to even play the map for fun. I hate having to jump through hoops just to even PaP like in Dead of The Night. I only ever beat the Easter Eggs on BO4 because i had friends who dedicated themselves to learning all the steps, but even then i wasn't having fun most of the time because while they did all of the long complex EE steps i was just running in a circle keeping an entire round worth of zombies alive. Love the Mainframe series excited to see where it goes in the future!

  38. I remember putting 30 days into black ops 3 zombies mode alone. Shadows and the Der eisen were the maps that my friends and i played on for days bc they never got old. Shadows had wonderful atmosphere and some of the most fun easter egg steps ever. Steps like CTF, lockdowns, and the egg/soul collecting kept the game at a great pace and it felt good to do them bc the payoff felt rewarding. Der eisen felt like more a chill map that anyone could pick up and play bc the bows were easy to make and fun to use, plus the map had a great easter egg and boss fight. i think the devs struggle to find good pacing in the maps nowdays. My friends and I say things like, "Why does it feel punishing to play zombies now?" I left zombies along time ago and it breaks my heart to see such a wonderful mode suffer like this. i still watch videos and content from all the zombie youtubers but i cant play the new games anymore because it just feels like a chore and I cant play the old maps as much bc ive already spent so much time on them. I really think you've hit the nail on the head with this one reed. Love u bro

  39. I’m glad you brought up the “quiet moments” in older maps. Jumping in sync with the clock on Der Riese was all it took for me to have fun back in the day.

    As of today, I have yet to boot up Tag Der Toten for the first time.

  40. I feel like this is one of the biggest reasons I fell out of love with newer zombies. My wife hasn’t liked zombies since BO1. I started to see why with WW2 and BO4. BO3 however is the game that will live with me forever. WaW and BO1-2 stuck with me for how much I loved the maps and playing them with my friends. BO3 is where I started getting into the Reddit and YouTube community and it was a wild ride. From Milo’s breakdowns of the SoE trailer to the subreddit basically tearing itself apart with the whole DF stuff with Rev. I lived for every minute of it.

    I got burned out on Zombies because of the artificial inflation and slipped out of the communities as everyone started being less active and engaging. Mostly on Reddit, I know the YouTubers struggled and I tried to stay in for you guys, but I just found myself doing anything other than anything to do with Zombies. I miss what BO3 brought us. I miss what WaW started. I’m pretty sure those times are over for good. But, at least we’ll always have those memories of what made us love this game mode so damn much. I’m glad so glad you’re still here Reed. Love you man and the rest of the community that helped make some of the best years of my life.

    [this is not me signing off forever on zombies, just my thoughts at the moment as a whole. I’ll never not go back and relive moments with Der Riese and Der Eisen.]

  41. The inflation have made me not want to play BO4 zombies, I just feel so done when I've spent 30 minutes to set up to actually play the map then I get killed by a runner on my way to get the shield again. BO1, BO2 and BO3 on the other hand, I would restart the map if I got down early because it wasn't a good run.

  42. They should put pro perks in zombies. Three different challenges for each, once the perk is pro the name gets a 2.0 added to it, on your screen the perk logo is now a star instead of its current shape, the logo itself changes a little bit, and not to mention the perk itself would become more powerful in some way. Also to make it so you don’t get the perk pro in one game, one of the challenges should be to drink the perk X amount of times. Also, let’s take dead shot for example, the number of headshots required for the pro version should be so high the chances of you getting it pro in one game is not very likely.

  43. I think for the shield, there should be either 1 spawn for each part, or the shield should have three or four areas from the start where you can buy it for say 1000 points and repair it/ get a new one for lets say 100 points so it gets rid of the building process. Maybe even all buildables should only have 1 spawn location per part, because technically you solved their puzzle and should be rewarded every match knowing how to build X item or Y item.

  44. Have you played Killing Floor 2? Thats a Real zombie survival game, once you play it you look cod zombies as it really is and always has been… Trash.

  45. Blundell's maps- e.g. Mob, Origins, BO3, BO4- the major shift from barriers to unhindered zombies spawns (riser, droppers, barrierless windows) and just a great deal more spawns really stood out to me as artificial inflation. Every Blundell map has a considerable amount less barriers than any Zielinski map, even in locations where there are window entrances, just no barriers on them (Nuketown's lack seemed stylistic, but I think Alpha Omega went that route too as more or less of an homage). BO2 Origins spawned riser zombies that immediately jumped out of the ground. BO3 increased the speed that the zombies tear down the windows, and at launch, decreased the rounds required for the progressive zombie run stages.

    Granted, there were large areas in maps like Shi No Numa or TranZit, but they were logical and more balanced. Big areas got more spawns, usually risers, where even the risers inside the playable area could be memorized with ease and even had indication sometimes, and the smaller areas got barriers or droppers that would first flail around (e.g. Shangri-La, Moon) before finally dropping.

    No more were the days of strategically (well, more so) placed zombie entrances that could be considered by the player and held if desired- just spam and filler spawns, always making the player train or run between spawn zones.

  46. Reed I'd love to see a video on the WW2 zombies system and how it succeeded compared to BO4's boring system that "borrowed" all the wrong parts of it. TFR is a masterpiece

  47. Reed! You gotta keep this show going! It's great and its a great way to keep doing zombies content but keeping it fresh.

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